(Butzer) Even if their books were taken away, they still didn’t have sufficient cause, they have acted unwisely, to separate themselves; if they had cause enough then, then they must still have it and could give reasons. Requested that they point out the inadequacies in doctrine, sacraments, and life.
(Jörg) He found evidence in Scripture how the church should act; and he has come here to show the people when they have done wrong. Since they have been jailed, he would convince them from Scripture.
(Butzer) The honorable gentlemen and all of us desire to hear the ground of his separation. Now he brings forward nothing but the error of certain servants, which he has not yet established and proved to them; and even if he had proved it, he had heard yesterday that that wasn’t sufficient basis for his separation; since he wanted to be judged in his own case he did an injustice to the church. Whoever follows the confession given to the Emperor, him they would accept. But whoever had deficiencies, he should be improved.
(Jörg) Yesterday pointed out two articles; would also show their inadequacies. Under the papacy it didn’t happen that the poor people were driven out of house and home. But they were driven now, and the authorities said in Wolkstorff that if he followed what he knew they wouldn’t sit still but the law would be enforced more severely yet.
Master Adam answered him immediately, said the opposite, and referred to and cited the princely law on the matter.
(Butzer) Whatever church persecuted the innocent did wrong. If the church persecuted them and he wished to condemn it, then he was judging his own case.
(Jörg) Said still they weren’t the church; Paul said (Romans 14:17) the kingdom of God was peace and righteousness. They pursue unrighteousness and create disturbance among the citizens of Marburg, so that people flogged and drove them out; and when they asked the council and citizens of Marburg the very people who flogged them said they didn’t deserve it and they were acknowledged to be pious people by them.
(Bützer) No injustice in the church was to be justified. He has not established that the church in Hesse was without righteousness, for he also hasn’t established yet that injustice was done him and that he unfairly suffered for peace, etc. Said, the church hadn’t cited them and put them in the tower, but the government (oberkeit) did it; and it was justly done for they caused unrest; when the church desired to be at one with them, then they despise the whole church, draw away from it whenever they can and unsettle many simple consciences. They want to be pious, and they say they’ve been done injustice; but they have to demonstrate that they have separated themselves from us and set up serious division and trouble justly; thereby nobody was made pious, but considerably damaged in many ways; in this they are not yet justified by anything in our churches; and that which Jorg cited had no weight, for we approve the ban and disapprove of usury, which were the only two points yet brought forward.
[ . . . ]
(Jörg) Declared they have shortcomings in the sacrament. Luther and Zwingli have caused division, and our church misused the sacrament.
(Burtzer) Any who want to be at peace can indeed be at peace in their unity. There were two things in the supper, the sign and that which it signified; and they have always heard that the fellowship of the body and blood of Christ is given in it.
(Jörg) Because they are not a Christian church, they also administer the sacrament improperly. That they misuse it, and that in disorderly manner, has been exposed to the light of day; for they use it with drunkards, usurers, and harlots.
(Butzer) The churches of Hesse maintain, according to the confession tendered the Emperor at Augsburg, that the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ are received in the sacrament. In the sacrament we receive the flesh and blood, etc., that feeds and sustains us into salvation. But when Jorg says drunkards, etc., are admitted, if he points one out who has been banned and convicted, who has been given the sacrament, then that will be altered for the better.
(Jörg) The reason this discussion takes place is that the ban remains unused. The papists have kept a better order than we.
(Butzer) The ban was not to be allowed to decline, Matthew 18; I Cor. 5; II Thess. 3:14, say also, the elders shall watch over the church as a housefather over his household. The issue is to be handled with those who loan sinfully; if they will not hear they are to be expelled; however hard the ban is felt, yet Christ drove the meeting even more energetically than banning. But there was no supervisory office that had brought a charge.
(Jörg) Has demonstrated his opinion where shortcomings were to be found. If Butzer wasn’t content with it then it would just have to be that way.
(Butzer) Said to the audience, teaching was according to the confession. Whoever didn’t do that, he could be cited [for it].
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