On Usury*
(Jörg) He had demonstrated from Scripture that one should not practice usury, neither with gold nor with goods.
(Butzer) They say they wished to justify no usury; and he must give evidence and cite where usury exists. For they condemn usury as he does.
(Jörg) They practice usury, taking of twenty guilders for one. But now for twenty guilders they required a measure of grain; that was two or three and a half guilders. Now in the first place the church took one guilder from twenty; this was forbidden in the Scripture.
(Butzer) Read to him from the 6th chapter of Luke (verses 31, 34), where the Lord said, “Whoever asks of you give to him,” and “Lend to those from whom you expect nothing in return,” etc.; and demonstrated from it that the Lord himself had given this rule for all such cases: “Do unto others what you would have them do unto you.” According to it, therefore, when the matter has to do with one’s neighbor, whatever we justly would wish if we stood in his place, or that we ourselves would take as let or loan, which would mean to us not only no excessive profit but also gave no basis for hope to receive again the loaned amount, that we should do for our neighbor, as we would hope in such a case to happen to us. Where, however, the neighbor has a gain won from use of the gold, or another, who in the meantime is not without a certain disadvantage, then love requires that he also share such profit with his neighbor, whose gold he used. Where now it is managed accordingly, be it with rents or other business, then it has been done in love and no one has a complaint. But wherever the neighbor has been injured, we condemn that also. But now when the common rule in the matter is five out of a hundred, those who use others’ money can easily pay with their profit. If then the treasury at Aldendorf has managed according to this rule of justice, Jorg has no complaint against them; for those people have been put in charge of the treasury money, in order to earn more; and thus when one’s own goods are sold to the treasury, from them the blessing of God may be expected for the poor. All church money should be divided into three parts and used: the one part is to be assigned for the maintenance of schools and church personnel; the second for the care of all needs in the parish and of special persons; the third is for building churches and for maintenance. But because unfortunately many needs show up in it, and thereby the believers don’t give so much to the treasury, it must be looked to that those who hold the treasury also serve the poor. Where now someone serves his own investments with the money of the poor, shouldn’t he share from it with the poor people? God forbade the Jews to take usury which damaged the neighbor, and not such a distribution of the profit to which the Lord sends his blessings – from the money of one and the trade or sales of another. Where such a tax is raised, with which the poor tax collector is criticized, injustice is done. But when five guilders are taken from a hundred according to the common rule, with it he can also make his own investments. But where the case is ambiguous, love shall be the master. Such business is a service and a work of love – no usury and also not forbidden by God.
(Jörg) How profitable it has been in love has been demonstrated in fact.
(Butzer) The papists also desire to condemn our people, saying things get worse all the time. Our doctrine is this: work repentance and also good. And it isn’t the fault of the teaching that people don’t do it. In the Old and New Testament it has always been the nature of God’s Word that it always irritated those people who didn’t accept it, just as is thoroughly demonstrated in Romans 1. “Many are called, but few are chosen” (Matt. 20:16). Those who don’t accept the doctrine, after it has been thoroughly explained to them, they sink more deeply daily and give occasion for the saying: “Since the new doctrine has been preached, many people have become worse.” Indeed, what has happened is what the prophets – Christ and the prophets have proclaimed – as indeed the histories and other writings show. The gospel washes us of all evil wherever it is rightly accepted. But now only the good seed brings forth fruit, as Christ says.
(Jörg) It has been spoken well, but he has not been rejoined; the actualities must be dealt with.
(Butzer) That we shall do.
* Under “usury” the Anabaptists included both avarice in business and the church tax system. This quotation is actually a paraphrase of Hosea 4:3. [Footnote taken from: “What Butzer Debated with the Anabaptists at Marburg: A Document of 1538,” edited and translated by Franklin H. Littell, Mennonite Quarterly Review 36 (July 1962), pp. 256-76.]
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